The six scumbag democrat politicians that made the video basically encouraging junior enlisted and even young junior officers to consider disobeying the orders of their superiors is familiar territory to me. Those politicians just took to the media and encouraged some really ignorant people to gamely consider that they can defy a direct order they don't like because in their simple minds, the order is illegal.
I once signed and gave the order that this whole thing all turned on:
Those idiots who decided that they needed to advise the entire military that they could disobey orders have basically invited a thousand more cases where dumb people do dumb things and take stupid advice, and really stupid advice from non-JAG lawyers and end up with a felony conviction.
Understand, that idiot above was free and clear and could have walked away with a simple letter that ordered her to cease contact and it would not have gone in anyone's files and it would have been forgotten about and probably not considered when it came time to write her fitness report if she had otherwise been doing an outstanding job. That was easy. She made it hard and then harder and then she compounded it and made it really hard. Had she listened to reason she would have done the thing ordered. Had she listened to her sane friends she would have taken Commodore's Mast and walked it off. By demanding a Court Martial she reaped every bad thing from a simple failure to obey orders and the lawyers got involved. Never involve the lawyers.
What this all was for those who don't know the military, was the worst fallout from a simple easily fixable non-criminal admonishment. Life doesn't get fairer than that. Now junior sailors and military personnel who despise President Trump are going to consider that they have the RIGHT to disobey an order they disagree with and there is NO UPSIDE to this behavior. Even if they win, they lose and they will never win.
I remember a conversation I had one night on an island off the coast of Kuwait during Desert Storm and the Petty Officer I was talking to was telling me how much he hated the navy and that his dad had told him that if he really wanted out all he had to do was slug an officer. It was late at night, we're both armed to the teeth and there's nobody around so I asked him, "what did you think of that advice?"
"He don't know shit!"
Captain Kelly and the rest of the scumbags deliberately and with malice gave stupid advice to dumb people wearing our uniform and Kelly knows that part of the mandatory training for all the decades after My Lai has been instruction on illegal orders. He and those other idiots just threw it into a political context where stupidity abounds and idiocy is compounded daily.
You cannot despise them enough.
17 comments:
The issue at the heart of the matter is what constitutes a legal vs illegal order. A number of good German officers were punished for following "legal" orders only to be held to account after the fact. Just because you personally don't believe the order is illegal makes it so. And vice versa. Makes life risky for soldiers who can be punished for obeying orders...and punished for not obeying them. Such a system sucks for the little guy.
Your sentence including "There is no upside" is dead on. I wasn't in the service, but I was raised by a Top Sgt, and he made it quite clear that if I had an issue with him we could talk about it, but if I ever stepped outside certain boundaries, I risked the consequences. Needless to say, I kept it straight between us. Didn't hurt that my dumbass older half brother never learned to shut up while he was ahead. I learned from that, too!
Any chance of those (who committed said offense) can be called back to active duty and court-martialed??
all part of the ongoing
Planned
Destruction of
USA
FROM WITHIN
by well known “agents”
furr in n domestic.
until this is addressed…
Major General Benedict Arnold of the Continental Army, served honorably and with distinction...
I was always active duty and know very little about the National Guard , the civilian / servicemen . Occasionally I worked with reservists who would show up for a week or two at sea , they had shiny shoes , creases , and very little in rate knowledge , we just kind of tasked them with stuff they wouldn't get hurt or fuck up . In the mid 90's with the RIF in active duty sailors , reservists and Guardsmen served larger roles and were deployed much more . I never got to know their mindset . We active duty guys lived it 24/7 , I can't imagine how it would be being a civilian and part time serviceman . I know they love to wear the uniform at every chance they can whereas all my active duty peers and myself would shed that garment right quick , and not wear it to travel (if orders had a good amount of proceed time) , and certainly not wear the uniform to ball games (unless ordered to or prescribed) or events or Walmart etc. Not out of disrespect for the uniform , but liberty time , when granted , was our time away from duty , "off duty" was off duty . There was a long period of time when traveling orders specifically said to travel in civvies .
It doesn't matter how salty a sailor feels the real issue is that no sailor or junior officer can really decide whether or not an order is legal outside the context he finds himself in now. What the six did was make the context explicitly political which means youngsters who don't like what they're told to do will question if they have to do it. They will never get an illegal order in that context and yet, now that they're aware of it they will start to see things in that light. Illegal orders were the ones that had to do with committing WAR CRIMES and nothing to do with anything else. Do you think junior snowflakes understand that? No. They will destroy themselves on an issue they don't even dimly understand. That's the evil of the 6 and the most heartbreaking thing.
it's amazing how much those old dudes learn in the time it takes us to grow from 18 years old to 25.....
Just Kelly at this point.
I hear he did the same with the British army....
I knew and worked with them all, mobilized and deployed thousands of reservists with the Expeditionary Security forces and they always impressed the hell out of me. The Silicon Valley units had a number of millionaire E-5 to Chief Petty Officers and not a few of their reserve officers and they all did the Reserve thing because they liked doing it. The only time in 30 years when I traveled in uniform was on milair and it was mandatory.
Well done!
I was Air Guard 21 years and I retired 21 years ago. The first 13 years I was in a JCSE communication squadron. We were a bit different. We were trained to the level of our active duty JCSE counterparts which was above regular active duty training. We deployed alongside them with the high deplorability carrier fields ( of which I belonged). I never wore the uniform for travel except on mil aircraft. Our mindset? Do our one weekend a month and minimal 2 weeks AD for a good year and pray that phone call to be at Admin processing with an overnight bag as we would be issued everything we need. I have 3 Expeditionary Medals due to calls like that that ripped me away from my family for 3 to 6 months. Reservist are slightly different as they do not answer to the state.
BTW: I do not qualify for VA medical because I do not have 2 years continuous service outside of initial training. That also means I cannot collect disability on my bum knee that I injured at a Southern Watch, lungs for the times I was deployed where there were burn pits, and my elbow that I tore some tendons in my elbow on an exercise that I had to pay for the surgery to fix it using my personal insurance and paying the deductible.
Millionaire E-5's wow , that's a trip . tsquared that suck's to not qualify for va care/treatment for an in service documented injuries , that ain't right , sorry to hear that . My comment may have come across as a slam to guardsmen /reservists , but it wasn't , like I said , their service on the four ships I served on just wasn't a common occurrence . We got a lot of two year enlistment guys during Desert Storm , active duty contracts with GI Bill at EAOS , they were mostly good , some great , but they knew they weren't going to make advancement beyond E3 in two years in Deck Dept . I can't imagine somebody being that stupid at any rank to question orders of a routine nature , but I also never imagined a ship having "safe spaces" where sailors could go when their feelings were hurt . But you know if you are a BM1 reservists , yeah , if you can't splice a an eye in a piece of 3 strand , I ain't going to have set up an UNREP Station , much less be a Rig Captain , or a Boat Coxswain but I will hand you a paint brush . Shit two weeks on a ship ain't enough time to get PQS signed off to stand much more than a Lookout Watch or Linehandler.
Re VA eligibility, please see below, taken from the link below:
We’ve expanded VA health care to millions of Veterans
All Veterans who meet basic service and discharge requirements and who were exposed to toxins and other hazards while serving our country—at home or abroad—are now eligible for VA health care. This includes all Veterans who served in the Vietnam War, Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other combat zone after 9/11. Apply today.
https://www.va.gov/health-care/eligibility/
18 U.S.C. § 2387 makes it a federal crime to interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States.
NOPE, see above. I have been fighting this for over 20 years. You are wrong Jim.
From your web link: If you enlisted after September 7, 1980, or entered active duty after October 16, 1981. You must have served 24 continuous months or the full period for which you were called to active duty,
I have been screwed over like every other 100% Guardsman who has written the blank check. This needs to change. A third of our military is Guard and Reserve.
Jim, Foxtrot Uniform.
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